He politely reminds me that the BBC is strictly off the agenda today. “It’s not me being difficult, but I’m not there yet. I want to listen to people, to understand what’s going on, understand some of the issues.”
There is a chink of a concession later when I ask what, in three words, should the BBC stand for? “I said I’m not going to do that. But I think the BBC should be distinctive, it should deliver exciting programmes that you won’t get anywhere else, and it should be your friend. I think so many people have real passion for the BBC, they really do. People say: 'I couldn’t live without Radio 4, Radio 3, BBC One, EastEnders…’ What I’ve learnt here is that the connection between audiences and their passions, and you and artists at an organisation, is really precious and you’ve got to work at it.”
Although he doesn’t start the job until next month, Hall has been making changes ahead of schedule. Helen Boaden, the BBC’s former head of news, heavily criticised for her failure to get to grips with the spiralling Savile crisis, has been moved to radio, while James Purnell, the former Labour culture secretary, was recently appointed director of strategy and digital. Anne Bulford, Hall’s former finance director at Covent Garden, will join him as the BBC’s managing director.
Sir David Attenborough has also been in for a chat about his visions for the future – and it appears his visions are 3D, a medium Attenborough has experimented with.
“David is excited about 3D and what they are doing with natural history on Sky,” says Hall. “We got excited about it, too, and we’ll see where it goes.”
Last week, Sir Nicholas Hytner, the artistic director of the National Theatre, attacked the BBC for chasing a “Downton ratings mentality” at the cost of quality arts programming. The corporation also faced criticism for sidelining The Review Show from BBC Two to BBC Four. Why, asked Sir Nicholas, can’t the BBC form a “close relationship” with companies such as his own, the Royal Ballet and Opera North, for instance, and broadcast more of the live arts? As he put it: “It’s low-hanging fruit for the taking.”
Hall won’t be drawn on programming ideas, but would like to see more of the arts. “Television and radio have a very important role in pointing you to things you otherwise wouldn’t necessarily come to, and for opera and ballet, too, that’s important.
“You need someone like the BBC to say, hey, look, this is what’s going on. And I can quite see, some time over the next decade, being able to choose to pay on your TV, or your mobile device, to watch what goes on at the stage here or the National Theatre, or at the British Museum.”
He champions Maestro, the BBC Two series where celebrities competed to conduct Covent Garden’s orchestra. “I’m absolutely all for it – let’s make this as accessible as you can to people.” But he was less enthused by ITV’s Popstar to Operastar, where judges, including the rock singer Meat Loaf, gave tips to failed pop stars attempting to sing opera. “I did see it,” says Hall. “It was, er, a very brave thing. But people are attracted by quality and do not like being talked down to.”
Hall is returning to where he started his career. The son of a bank manager, he joined the BBC as a graduate trainee in 1973, straight from Oxford. Rising through the ranks, he was senior producer of the Six O’Clock News aged 33, then assistant editor of Nine O’Clock News, before becoming chief executive of news and current affairs in 1996. He left for Covent Garden in 1998 after losing out to Greg Dyke for the top job.
The BBC he returns to is a troubled beast, but Hall is adept at steadying the ship. When he joined the Royal Opera House in 2001, Covent Garden was a mess, having parted company with five chief executives in as many years. But he has restored artistic and financial credibility and reels off his some of his proudest achievements.
“We’re playing to over 92 per cent full houses and selling out many nights, 40 per cent of our audiences are under 45, last year 47,000 people watched our Romeo and Juliet at the O2 in seats from £10 to £20, 100,000 people across the country watched Richard Eyre’s La Traviata on big screens and in cinemas.”
He cites Anna Nicole – the controversial Mark-Anthony Turnage opera about the late Anna Nicole Smith, the troubled Playboy model – and Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, the groundbreaking ballet based on Lewis Carroll’s books – as highlights. Both were risky propositions for Covent Garden’s main stage, both were sell-outs.
What are the most important lessons he will take to New Broadcasting House? “Put the art first,” he says. “Ambition is important. You can’t be cynical with your audiences. You’ve got to take risks, but not risks at any cost – risks that are thought through.
“Secondly, give as many people you can things of really high quality. Thirdly, teams. I’m a profound believer in teams. Getting teams to perform well, to acknowledge when things aren’t working out, to celebrate when they are, to work together collaboratively – that really matters to me hugely.
“And getting the money right. Wherever you can, save.”
Hall can take his own advice and readily admits to things that haven’t worked at Covent Garden, including 3D cinema screenings of Carmen and Opera Shots, a series of experimental half-hour operas by avant-garde composers, whose subjects ranged from football hooliganism to a woman taking a pregnancy test. The productions left much of the audiences bemused and the box office underwhelmed.
“You’ve to give artists the chance to say different things to audiences in new ways. It’s important for organisations to keep trying new things, and not everything will work. You’ve got to have that attitude. We tried 3D, we’re now rethinking where we are with that. Was it worth doing? Of course. You’ve got to keep pushing, haven’t you?”
Hall is unhappy that the arts can be seen as a “luxury good”. “I find it so frustrating when ministers get beaten up for coming to watch opera. The arts should not be seen as at the margins, as part of 'luvviedom’. The arts are central to our lives and who we are.”
But while Hall recently welcomed George Osborne, Michael Gove and Ed Vaizey to Wagner’s 'Ring’ Cycle, he warns the Government to steer clear of policies that appear to sideline the arts in the national curriculum, such as the English Baccalaureate, which the Education Secretary was forced to reconsider.
“I hope the rethink enables us to get the arts broadly into the curriculum, because it does so much,” says Hall. “It should be protected – it’s vital to our future, it’s vital to arts-going audiences, but it’s also vital to young people’s sense of who they are and their self-esteem.”
He bats away the idea that opera and ballet are the reserve of a black-tie brigade. “I don’t think the old adage that these are elite art forms is right. I’m enormously confident about the future of opera and ballet in terms of wooing and winning new audiences.”
But when some tickets cost in excess of £800, fans continue to complain of being priced out of the market. “We’re conscious that price is a problem. Which is why it’s important to keep half the house at £50 or less, and why we’ve lowered prices on some things this season, such as Tosca. If I could wave a wand and lower prices for some pieces by even more, I’d love to. But we’ve had to cope with a diminishing subsidy. Life is a damn sight harder now.”
As Covent Garden’s chief executive, he has spent 12 years out and about “four or five nights a week, and sometimes weekends”, and as director-general it seems unlikely that his wife Cynthia, headmistress of Wycombe Abbey girls school, will be seeing more of him any time soon. What else can you say to the man whose predecessor lasted 54 days in the job, other than best of luck with it all? “I’ll need it,” he says.
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